Circumcision! Now that’s a word that will get every man to squirm! I’ve been reading through Leviticus slowly and have been picking up on several of the unique laws that were put into place. I already went over some of the dietary laws in my blog named Clean versus Unclean food - why? a few days back, so here is some info on the circumcision time frame.
I had heard before that God knows everything, and He knew that if you circumcised before day 8 the child would have a greater risk of not having proper blood clotting. That’s really all I heard. After the 7th day, blood clotting worked best, so wait till then, or as God put it to the Israelites, “On the 8th day, circumcise the boy!” This was simply not enough info to satisfy my hunger for knowledge. Soooo, I did a little searching, and found this website that provides a bit more info a few paragraphs down. It even has a graph!
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2204
Enjoy the free research and the jolt to your brain after you read it and now have more knowledge!
God bless,
Jeff
Filed under: Religion, Short Thoughts | Tagged: 8th day, Christianity, Circumcision, eighth day, law, old Testament, research, science, Thoughts
Hmmmm very interestin. I like your blog. Thanks.
Thanks Mer Pints!
How about waiting until the boy is oldest to decide for himself before attacking his genitals with a blade?
Culturally, psychologically and medically, there are many arguments for and against circumcision. In the end, it’s a parental decision, much like getting vaccinations or minor surgeries like tubes in the ears. I disagree there is any “attacking” or even overt violence associated with the procedure now. I have a 6 year old and have made the decision for him long ago.
I would say that if a law of some type was passed banning this practice, then most adults would choose to NOT have the procedure due to pain and the memory of that pain. I had my tonsils out at 35 and wish I had had them out at a young age. It was tough.
What are you saying tree63fan? That it might one day, in rare circumstances, be medically necessary to get circumcised, therefore it’s beneficial to mutilate a male? Sorry about your tonsils, but no one really misses their tonsils once they’re gone. It’s not an apt comparison.
It’s not a parents decision to circumcise anymore than it’s a parents decision to amputate a babies limbs.
Thanks for continuing the discussion Greg….
I did not need to have my tonsils out. It was a choice for convenience since I dealt with tonsil stones. I would have much preferred to have just had them removed at a young age so I never had to deal with them slowly deteriorating in my throat…(FYI it was also my choice to have hernia surgery before it was truly even needed. I was told I was born with the inguinal hernia…boy that was a surgery that would have been nice to have just had done when I was a kid!)
Maybe I’m being unfair not understanding where you are coming from and what your history is?
In a nutshell what I’m saying is that circumcision to me is no big deal. I have no memory of it and I have no idea of what (if anything) I have “lost” with not having foreskin. All I do know is that it’s very easy to keep myself clean. I do know that some males have a hard time keeping themselves clean especially at young ages and these males don’t have foreskins to deal with. Either way, with or without a foreskin, a male CAN keep themselves reasonably clean, reasonable easily. I have no problem either way.
To better compare the practice, think of ear piercing or any number of other “ritualistic” practices from around the world. I would never say that the stretching of a females neck over many years, nose piercings, branding, tattoos, or any number of “rights of passage” are 1) Mutilation or 2) Not a parents right. Most of these are cultural actions. I guess I would challenge you that if you think piercing a little girl’s ear is okay and circumcision is not, then there is a problem with your logic. If you equally feel both are mutilation, then you are being consistent.
Culturally, I understand that circumcision comes directly from the Biblical perspective of making the Israelites stand out and be different. This tradition was passed on and picked up by various people groups and we have what we have today. If you want to dive into medical “for and against” just let me know and I’ll gladly research it.
I just completely disagree that it’s 1) Mutilation and 2) Not a parents right. It is NOT mutilation, because if it were doctors would be prosecuted for performing circumcision. And since, again, the law allows it, it IS most definitely a parents right.
Also, I would have to argue against your last statement on amputation. If there was a decision to make for a child, then ultimately the parent is the one to make that decision. I realize you were implying “just chopping off a limb for no reason”, but there IS a reason for circumcision. You just happen to disagree with it and that is completely acceptable and within your rights!
Lastly, to tie this into my post. Please note that my post was all about showing one instance of many where God showed knowledge that we did not have available at the time (at least not easily). God knew the right timing to have the Israelites perform circumcisions and he told them.
With respect,
Jeff
Your choice to have your tonsils out was YOUR CHOICE. It could have been your parent’s choice IF YOU WERE HAVING PROBLEMS at a young age. That would have been fair, given that your tonsils don’t provide a useful function. Foreskin, on the other hand, doesn’t cause most males any serious problems, and provides benefits during intercourse, making it more comfortable and pleasurable for both partners involved.
If you had problems with ear infections, would you wish that your parents had cut off your ears?
Circumcision is “no big deal” to you. Alright. Some people may feel cutting out tongues is no big deal. They would say “Cut’em out while children are young.”
Having no idea what you have “lost” is part of the problem. Nobody has the right to take something from you that was granted by nature.
The cleaning argument is a load of Garbage. If someone can’t clean themself properly in the shower, chances are they won’t function very well in society. And what about males on other continents like Europe where genital cutting isn’t so common? They don’t seem to have hygienic problems. Personally, I would bear the burden of cleaning my body parts verses having them amputated.
You can’t compare forceful circumcision on infants to consensual ear piercings. You can’t justify what our so called “civilized” culture does to males in relation to other cultures.
The original circumcision described in the bible was just a nic on the genitals. Around comes the Victorian era and circumcision becomes a means to control sexuality. Circumcision has been promoted as a method to control masterbation by deadening a males genitals. There has never been a credible medical argument for circumcision. Some doctors have provided a service in direct contradiction with the hippocratic oath that they took.
Some people would disagree that cutting off parts of a females genitals is mutilation. How far do you think that argument would go in our society?
Doctors aren’t usually prosecuted simply because this type of assault is tolerated in society, just the same way way that female circumcision was tolerated in some societies. However, there are some instances of doctors being successfully sued for performing this procedure (in the USA).
There are some decisions that I think a parent can’t make. Is it okay for a parent to cut off an arm? How about just a finger?
Of course it’s acceptable for me to disagree with opinions on circumcision. The real question is, is it okay for a parent or doctor to act on their opinion based on tradition instead of Science?
I would like to note that in your last paragraph you are making an assertion without providing any reason or proof.
I have a question for you: Why did God create males with highly sensitive foreskin that needs to be surgically removed? Did He make a mistake?
Sincerely Yours,
Greg Valcourt
Greg,
I feel you misread some of what I wrote. I apologize that my wording was not clear…I said it was NOT a problem to clean having foreskin, the same as it’s not a problem to clean without foreskin.
[I do know that some males have a hard time keeping themselves clean especially at young ages and these males don’t have foreskins to deal with. Either way, with or without a foreskin, a male CAN keep themselves reasonably clean, reasonable easily. I have no problem either way.]
You feel very strongly that circumcision is akin to amputation and I disagree. Respectfully, we aren’t going to change each others minds. Maybe they don’t do it in Canada, but in the states many baby girls nowadays get their ears pierced at 1-2 years old or less….At that age is it consensual? Personally, I don’t think so…But it’s not “amputation” as you define it, so it must be alright. You ask me where do I draw the line?…I draw the line at what is legal. As I mentioned, circumcision is not against the law (in the USA) and it is a parent’s right. You have shown nothing to combat that. You could look at any surgical procedure known to man and find someone who has been sued over it. Scientific conclusions are constantly changing as new research is done. Last I checked, laws are a product of the people, science doesn’t dictate law, people do. As the will of the people change, a law can change. If that occurs I will abide by it. [ie I completely disagree with abortion in any form, but it's legal so all I can do is simply argue my opinion as you are doing. I can vote for public servants who agree with me and hope that one day the laws change.]
You appear more studied on this subject regarding biblical circumcision and current circumcision. Knowing today’s medical advances I would be surprised if circumcision methods hadn’t changed over time, but I am not an expert at all.
Obviously, God did not make a mistake. Biblical circumcision had nothing to do with health as far as I know…My last paragraph is based on faith (assuming you were questioning God’s Word and my belief in it). If anything…God declared that circumcision was okay. In various translations of the Bible, I cannot find a translation noting a “[nick] on the genitals”.
“Each male among you must be circumcised. You must cut off the flesh of your foreskin as a sign of the covenant between me and you. From generation to generation, every male child must be circumcised on the eighth day after his birth.” (in Gen 17)…That is the typical translation…
I appreciate your opinion, but we obviously completely disagree with one another and are dedicated to our stances.
Blessings!
Jeff